Kids Don’t Take NO for an Answer!



Owl Teens 4

One of the most amazing aspects of our Crusade for Classic against Yahoo is the fact that thousands of teenagers and young adults almost immediately took it upon themselves to join our cause and stand up for the rights of the elderly and disabled as well as the rights of all Yahoo users.

This group of kids had a network that stretched across a number of states to the tune of 130,000 users or more, and when NEO came out, it was destroyed just as much as everything else.  The groups wouldn’t function like they used to; the database, something they used extensively, was broken. The assistance they had given in the past with the use of Groups as a platform was effectively crippled.

So they had to abandon their groups, many which closed and were deleted, but they came back to create a new group dedicated to standing alongside of my group and me in the fight against NEO.  Recently they made that group a restricted private group to protect the younger kids, but created a second group which is public.

These young people have worked extremely hard, even around the clock at times, writing newspapers, media, advertisers, congressmen, and government officials. They’ve given up their time, social activities, etc., to accomplish this.  They’ve pled the cause to schools, churches, communities, and more.

They have contacted the DOJ and had discussions with them about the fact that the new format doesn’t meet ADA requirements. They have made it their quest to get Classic restored for seniors and disabled, at the very least.  They have stood up for minor children being protected online, and railed against offending inappropriate ads in various groups. They have spoken out against how Yahoo has treated US Veterans.

They have connected to almost every state in America, as well as overseas, and one by one  they are bringing on board more and more supporters of stopping Yahoo’s NEO Redesign, so their movement grows and strengthens by the  hour.  Counting the Yahoo group they created and other servers on other sites, including Facebook, these 7,000+ members of the younger generation that Yahoo claims it has been targeting have been making their feelings known that they can’t use this new format.

It then goes without saying that if the elderly can’t use it, and the teenagers and young adults can’t use it, just who is Yahoo’s target consumer?

Following is one of the first posts in their group that really moved me:

I received an email from a friend of mine last July. He was behind in his classes and needed help with homework. I knew where to send him. I sent him to our time honored and respected teen group at Yahoo. There he found the help he needed. Not only did he get help with homework, he found some great e-pals and a mentor. He found a place to vent his anger. He had the opportunity to grow.

My neighbor across the street is an older lady. She’s a widow and found a support group at Yahoo. She found the help she needed for her medical condition. She became good friends with the owner of the group and suggested improvements to the group that would be of benefit to her blind friend. No problem, it was done.

In central Portland I heard about a young man that was dealing with sexual abuse and had anger that was eating him alive. He found a Yahoo support group that helped him.

One day I looked at some of the groups that were listed at Yahoo. There were active adoption group that found homes for abused kids. There was even an animal rescue team that found good homes for dogs and cats. I was proud that at the center of all this was the teen group I belonged to.

Then all this came to a crashing end. Yahoo rolled out a new group platform called NEO groups. No longer were we able to use the groups in the way that assisted our lives. By late August, groups no longer functioned. Then began the exodus from the groups. Yahoo lost thousands of users when it became clear that Yahoo had no intention to roll back the NEO format.

By early September the groups I mentioned above were gone.
In mid September I got an email from the dude that wanted homework help. He thanked me and said that we have to do something to help the senior citizens and the blind. Yahoo has dissed them like there’s no tomorrow. Adrian Smith created a group to help the seniors.All I could think of were my neighbors. It was easy for me to join this effort.
Then I thought of our school motto: Conquer with true virtue.
Our group will win the battle to restore the groups for the elderly. Because what’s good will always triumph.

And you know us kids, we don’t take no for an answer.

Vincent Ortega, 10/16/2013

Continue reading the things below, and you will witness the courage & determination they have to reach our goal. I’m so proud of them.

Last September, about 50 volunteers, including Adrian Smith, (who were still in Classic mode), helped former group owners retrieve valuable photos, files, and data. We regret that it was a 50/50 proposition. By February,everyone was placed in NEO. By that time it was too late. I regret that we were not able to reach everyone. But, considering there are millions of groups, what we did helped out a lot.

Adonis A. Luceero  4/20/2014


Answer this question in your heart.  Look through the eyes of justice. Look through the dimming eyes of the blind who were at Yahoo before most of us. They built their Yahoo group homes and believed that Yahoo had their needs at heart. They had the faith in Yahoo that Yahoo would take care of their needs. NEO came in like a wrecking ball in the dead of the night. The blind found the wrecked shell of what they needed and required left nothing they could use behind. For me,my answer is to help as long as it takes. For me my inspiration are my elderly grandparents, my neighbors, the kids playing in the park and Brenda of St Louis, Adrian Smith and Andy Seales.

Who can you help?
Think of everyone around you — in your family, your school, your office, your community, your country, your world. Who can you help? How can you help them?

What value do you have to impart to others? Answer that question, and it will lead you to wherever you want to go.

Do not think that you have nothing of value to offer. You most certainly do. Your job is to find what that is, to discover who you can help, and how you can help them. The value you have to offer is most likely a mixture of your knowledge, your skills, your opinions, your interests, your likes and dislikes, the people you know, and the experiences you’ve lived through.

Help others enjoy prosperity, and you will become wealthy. Help others to be truly happy, and you will be filled with joy. Teach to others, and you will learn. No matter who you are or how doggedly life has beat you down, you have something to offer, something that will make your life shine.

Who can you help? What can you do to make a difference?

Tabor Warren 4/19/2014



RE: Yahoo Redesign NEO Format

1. This format is in violation of public website access defined in the DOJ/ADA. Yahoo was warned from day one that the format is illegal but has not heeded the concerns of the visually impaired.

1A. This format is at variance with the Child Online Protection and Privacy act as amended. It is at variance with the January 2014 California statute forbidding the ‘tracking’ of minor children. When posting to Yahoo groups directly, the IP of the user is disclosed.

2. This format is in violation of international conventions adopted by the majority of sovereign nations through the auspices of the United Nations. Rights to public access to to internet websites for the elderly and disabled. The placement of ads causes the reading equipment of the blind to stop functioning.

3. This format is discriminatory against the elderly. The elderly have warned Yahoo since day one that the format causes their older computers and slow modems to freeze. The high usage of RAM depletes the functionality of their computers over a period of time.

4. This format can not be used by those that have peripheral vision and nerve damage.  Once again, users have voiced and written their concerns to Yahoo. These concerns have been dismissed. Yahoo claims that measures have been taken to address these concerns. Their proclamations are not based in reality. Their proclamations are for the sole attention of media scrutiny.

5. Yahoo needs to be held accountable for forcing this unwanted, un-needed, and unpopular format on millions of users that have complained about this format from day one.


My older brother asked me to pass this on.
This is where he was and his heart remains.

Light the corners of my mind
Misty watercolor memories
Of the way we were

February 2000. Please join the interactive clubs of CorysHouse. Sign-up for your free email provided by OutBlaze and CorysHouse.

CorysHouse and all its contents are dedicated to Robbie Kirkland;14. He enjoyed his home here on the net. Like most of us he loved being a teenager. He laughed, joked and was full of life. All that turned to tears and despair. A harsh and intolerant homophobic world caused his death. CorysHouse is and will remain a project where all are welcome. Through the network of teens helping teens and a buddy system, we will continue to work to prevent teen suicide.

To Robbie:  Your memory will forever live in our hearts and souls. We are here to dedicate our young lives to prevent other teenagers from committing suicide.

Matthew Shepard 1976-1998
Antti Makinen 1982-1998.
Ben of Maine 1980-2/8/1999
JussiJamDude of Finland 1983-2/5/2000
Students, faculty and parents of Columbine HS;Littleton Colorado.
To all that have served this project.

Scattered pictures
Of the smiles we left behind
Smiles we gave to one another
For the way we were

May be beautiful and yet
What’s too painful to remember
We simply to choose to forget

So it’s the laughter
We will remember
Whenever we remember
The way we were
The way we were

CoryHouse 1998/September 2013
Yahoo may have leveled CorysHouse with NEO. Our memories and the love we shared in our internet family will never die.

By Adrian Lucero 4/19/2014



They add up in the scheme of things. They weave a with each thread a tapestry of success. They add to the mosaic of justice. In all they we work to achieve, remember thousands are now part of it. Together we will shine the light on the flawed and illegal NEO format. With each email and opinion you send you are bringing about the day of reckoning for Yahoo. You are making the statement loud and clear that you will not sit still to see the rights of the elderly and disabled trampled upon. You are standing at the head winds of gale force winds firm and strong for the safety of children.

My friends and neighbors, no matter what becomes of this group, our mission will move ahead. Yahoo is running scared. They are deleting messages that dare to hold them accountable. They are deleting messages that remind others a mobilized effort is growing stronger each day against neo.

They can run but cant hide the truth.

Tabor Warren 4/25/2014


She’s right. Yahoo cannot hide the truth. They already deleted it, but we’ve archived it. Between these kids, the members of my group, and me, we have been painstakingly documenting Yahoo’s folly in this new redesign. We have the correspondence, complaints,  comments, and the tweet conversations with Jeff Bonforte. We have tallies of groups deleted, the users’ feedback, and the Tumblr posts; you name it, we have it.  Just ask.

Now all we need is for someone to believe in us, support us, and tell the world what Yahoo has really done. Do our story, get the truth out, and bring the evidence to the light of day.

Help me, along with these kids, to finally hold Yahoo accountable for their unethical and unthinkable treatment of a revered group of people who were once loyal users, many dating back to the time of  OneList.  Yahoo threw the elderly and disabled in the trash. We are trying to rescue them from their NEO nightmare.

Thanks, and please consider telling our story to the world.

Brenda Fowler and the SAYNO2NEO Kids.


Yahoo Ignoring Its Own Security Flaws


In light of the Heartbleed story, I felt that we needed a post here about the inherent dangers of Yahoo’s new redesign. Not counting all the other issues, the new redesign is a security risk all by itself, full of numerous problems that can easily be exploited.

Yahoo is not a safe environment, and even patching Heartbleed and using encrypting won’t fix all their problems. They have caused so many issues in their Groups and Mail services with their new “improved” redesign that they are broken and unsafe.

Without any ability to regulate them, spammers can overrun us because we can’t see what we are approving and sometimes it appears to be blank when approving.

Embedded images aren’t shown either, and “reject with a reply” sometimes goes to the entire group instead of privately.  See here.

Near the beginning of the NEO changeover, private information in Freecycle Groups was mistakenly going public and was displayed to 18,000 users.  Although it was supposedly fixed, trust was broken, and most Freecycle groups have long since left.

The system breaks and hangs; things don’t work. They threw us in this “test” with no warning in August of 2013 and have not ever publicly acknowledged that Group members still have these  problems.

From the Yahoo Uservoice Feedback Forum
1,633 votes

After filing an incident report (130824-020762) with your so called Customer Care, I have come to the conclusion that you really couldn’t care any less. “You are part of a test group and cannot be removed” is not an adequate response nor helpful in any way. I not only don’t appreciate the Yahoo attitude, as far as I’ concerned you can keep it. I will start my groups over in Google Groups and leave Yahoo and it’s advertisers to their own demise.


It’s now been 8 months and yet we are still stuck in this broken, buggy, unstable mess. Yahoo needs to man-up and admit their new interface is a failure and no amount of encrypting or securing will make it function correctly. It doesn’t even function on the mobile devices it was designed for!

We’ve been hacked.

Attacked with ads that were inappropriate or with malware.

Suffered severe mail outages that also affected Group Mail, and and Yahoo Customer Care has been little or no help.

Suffered loss of moderator controls and features and had many other issues:

And nothing has been done to fix it. Yahoo figures no one will care about us; we’re just “Groups” users who don’t matter. Mail users got an admission of failure, an adjustment on a feature, and an apology. We got nothing. Once loyal longtime users of Yahoo, we were simply disregarded.

So we are once again in the fight of our lives against Yahoo’s new “improvements” because the new format called NEO has been a disaster from day one that has impacted and changed many thousands of users’ lives forever.

The secret Yahoo doesn’t want you to know? Yahoo’s new “upgrades” DO NOT WORK. They are broken, buggy, dysfunctional, have security issues, and worse, they cause physical harm to the elderly and disabled. We’ve had enough; it’s been long enough, and something needs to be done NOW!

Meanwhile, they are trying to hide their failure. In fact, instead of properly evaluating feedback that we’ve been providing in their Feedback Forum, now Yahoo is DELETING it!  Fortunately, I had already archived a lot of it.

This is now day #220 of our Crusade, and we are still going strong. We need to get our story in the press, like mail did, in order to bring public opinion to the table and hopefully force Yahoo to roll back this disaster of an “improvement” and return us to the classic format that we all knew and loved, that was secure and user friendly, and that WORKED.

But if nothing else, even if we fail and can’t get them to return to Classic, my group and another group of 3,000+ teenagers and twenty-somethings who have joined forces with me are determined to hold Yahoo accountable for what they have done in the public eye, if nowhere else. We are going to bring their treatment of loyal users to the light of day, one way or another, and you can help us do that!

Please read this and consider helping by putting our Crusade Site URL and our fight in the press.


Nightowl >8#

Neo Fails ADA Requirements

Lawyer Owl 1
By Andrew Seales
Reposted with permission by Nightowl >8#

Last I heard, Yahoo is scrambling to cover its unit before justice levels THEM.  Web Site ADA Compliance Checklist:
Does each non-text element on the page have a text equivalent via “alt” (alternative text attribute) or does the page otherwise include a meaningful description of the non-text element in the text accompanying the non-text element?  For any multimedia content, is text captioning provided for all audible output and audible output provided for all-important visual information?Are all audio descriptions and text captions synchronized with their associated dynamic content?  Is the page capable of being understood and navigated even if users do not have the ability to identify specific colors or differentiate between colors?If the page uses cascading style sheets or JavaScript style sheets, is it viewable without style sheets or with style sheets turned off or not supported by the browser?If the page uses cascading style sheets or JavaScript style sheets, is it designed so that it does not interfere with style sheets set by the browser?

If the page includes any server-side image maps, are duplicate text links provided for all links within the server-side image maps?

If the page includes any server-side image maps, have you established a timetable to replace the server-side image maps with client-side image maps except where the regions cannot be defined with an available geometric shape?

If the page includes one or more client-side image maps, does each map region have a text equivalent via “alt” (alternative text attribute) or does the page otherwise include a meaningful description of the non-text element in the text accompanying it?

If the page includes data in tables (either HTML tables or preformatted text tables using the <PRE> tag) and if any of the tables have two or more rows (including header or data cells), does each cell provide identification of row and column headers?

If the page uses frames, does each frame have a title that meaningfully describes it?

Does the page include content (such as applets or content requiring plug-ins) that may cause the screen to flicker with a frequency greater than 2 Hz and lower than 55 Hz?

If the page uses scripts, such as JavaScript or scripts in Macromedia Flash content, and if the scripts affect any content displayed to the user, is there equivalent text provided by the page or the script that is accessible to a screen reader?If the web page uses applets, such as downloadable Java applets, does it also contain the same information and functionality in an accessible format?  If the page uses other programmatic objects (such as Flash, Shockwave, RealAudio, or RealVideo content) or otherwise requires the use of plug-ins or programmatic support for the browser, does the page include a link to the plug-in or programmatic item required for accessing the content of the page, and is that plug-in or programmatic item itself accessible to people with disabilities?If the page includes links to .pdf (Adobe Acrobat’s portable document format) files, were those .pdf files created in a way that is likely to maximize their usability for people with disabilities?If the page includes one or more electronic forms that is designed for completion online, does each form permit users of assistive technology to access the information, field elements, and functionality required for completion and submission of the form including all directions and cues?If the page contains one or more forms designed to be completed online but inaccessible to people with disabilities in some respect, does the page include an alternate accessible form or a link to an alternate accessible form?

If the page includes navigational links to other web pages within the same website, is there a link allowing users of screen readers to skip over those links?

If the page requires users to respond within a fixed amount of time before the user is “timed out,” is the user alerted that he or she will be timed out and given sufficient time to indicate that more time is required before actually being timed out?

Taking into consideration your responses to the previous questions, if the reviewed page likely contains barriers to access for people with disabilities, do you have an alternative text-only page that contains the same information and is updated as often as the reviewed page?

Originally posted here.

Making it Clear to Yahoo

Lawyer Owl 1By Adrian Smith
Reposted with permission by Nightowl >8#

  • Yahoo NEO has destroyed our databases.  Students are no longer able to use the database to post……anything.
  • Yahoo NEO violates the privacy of users that post directly to the group by showing the IP address of the user.  Our network is fortunate to use a server to bypass this security problem.
  • Yahoo NEO does not allow aliases to be used.
  • Yahoo NEO is in violation of the ADA and other nations’ rights of the disabled.  How dare you treat these people with contempt.  How dare you treat these people as yesterday’s garbage.  How dare you roll out this format without any type of notice.  We owe it to our neighbors to fight you at every opportunity and to bring you to justice.
  • We have every right to hold your advertisers accountable for blocking access to the groups with ads you place on the message board that stops the equipment they use.
  • Yahoo NEO discriminates against the elderly and poor.  The elderly on fixed incomes cannot afford the computer upgrades needed to navigate your new format that is a RAM hog.
  • You dismissed the hundreds of thousands of complaints against NEO. You have been disingenuous to the media and concerned individuals by saying the classic system was outdated.  You had every opportunity to build a new foundation with the classic groups.  The dollars you’ve spent with just the new logo could have been used to enhance the classic groups.

We will not reveal our final strategy.  We will say that a growing number of concerned individuals are aware of what you have done.

  • This format is in violation of public website access defined in the DOJ/ADA.  Yahoo was warned from day one that the format is illegal but has not heeded the concerns of the visually impaired.
  • This format is in violation of international conventions adopted by the majority of sovereign nations through the auspices of the United Nations. Rights to public access to to internet websites for the elderly and disabled. The placement of ads causes the reading equipment of the blind to stop functioning.
  • This format is discriminatory against the elderly.The elderly have warned Yahoo since day one that the format causes their older computers and slow modems to freeze. The high usage of RAM depletes the functionality of their computers over a period of time.
  • This format cannot be used by those that have peripheral vision and nerve damage.  Once again, users have voiced and written their concerns to Yahoo. These concerns have been dismissed.  Yahoo claims that measures have been taken to address these concerns.  Their proclamations are not based in reality.  Their proclamations are for the sole attention of media scrutiny.
  • Yahoo needs to be held accountable for forcing this unwanted, unneeded, and unpopular format on millions of users that have complained about this format from day one.

Originally posted here.

NEO Destroyed Disaster Assistance Network

Owl Teens 4

From: Richard Valdez
To:  The Media and Advertisers

Tonight you have just witnessed two significant flaws in Yahoo group NEO. When the owner of the group and invited guests are at the mercy of NEO, put yourself in their shoes. When teens and young people with their families give up their evening for the good of their communities and are cut off by NEO, think of your community and your business.

Adrian showed his anger for the first time when he told us that messages planning for the safety of kids were not getting through. This third-rate group format called NEO is not worth a penny in investment.

On August 6th, 2013, our Centennial State boasted 2,855 Colorado groups. Today,there are 2,379. The largest group with over 14,000 members was Bryan Edison’s Colorado Experience. It was founded in July of 1999. What made it unique was the interactive network that united 95% of the Colorado-based group. The group had yearly meet-ups throughout the state for Colorado group owners. Colorado Experience spearheaded internet assistance during the recent forest fires and tornadoes in the lower Arkansas Valley. The group was the second group based for Colorado to issue Amber Alerts. The membership worked with a Denver-based international teen/family group for online homework help and mentor project.

All-in-all the group represented what is best in each of us.  It stood the test of time and was a beacon — a giant of Colorado groups throughout the internet. The group worked with the management of Yahoo to facilitate the needs of the elderly and visually impaired during the switch-over of clubs to groups in 2001.Colorado groups made the access to the groups for the elderly and visually impaired a number one priority. You may have been contacted by the group during its 15-year run.

The last major mobilization of the group was the National Night Out on August 6th. This was a combined effort of the teen/family group and was a huge success. The following day ended the ability of Colorado Experience to function in a relevant manner. Yahoo began the roll-out of a new format called NEO groups. This caused major confusion. No one had any prior notice. The new system was so flawed that a plug-in was discovered to by-pass it. What disturbed a lot of us is the fact that it was not tested upon release. Our hearts were heavy during the recent floods. We couldn’t use the network to help our neighbors. One by one the most popular Colorado groups disbanded. The NEO interface with all its flaws was too much to bear. Some groups found alternatives to Yahoo at Facebook and related internet services. Our cherished teen and family network with 130,000 members was gone by September.

The elderly and visually impaired? Where were they able to go? Nowhere. The groups they needed to network with others for health and living information was destroyed by the NEO format. How? Our senior citizens relied on the custom-built groups, and their fixed incomes prevent them, for the most part, to afford new computers or high speed internet. With their slow dialup and DSL modems, the pages with NEO use so much RAM that even cable has problems downloading the pages. The font is so small, it’s difficult for them to read. The blind have complained to Yahoo that the NEO format is at variance with the ADA. You may know that the blind use special equipment to read the internet pages. With the NEO format, it’s impossible. The scrolling pages and ads choke off their readers and stops them cold.

Thousands of Yahoo group owners and users complained to Yahoo and demanded a return to the older group format. Yahoo has ignored their request. Because of this, hundreds of groups have been disbanded, affecting nearly 2 million users. Because of the callous and patronizing attitude of Yahoo, a Denver and a Georgia resident organized a group to do whatever it takes to urge Yahoo to junk the NEO format and restore the previous format for the elderly and disabled. Nearly 2,000 teens and young adults across the globe have organized to fight Yahoo. They need your voice. They need your belief in justice to champion the humanitarian outreach to the elderly and disabled. They need your anger to shine the light of day on what Yahoo has become. Our group has one mission and one mission only and that is to restore the old group format. We will not take no for an answer.

You can read the original post here.

Do The Math…

Owl Mathematician

Millions of loyal users lost their email accounts in July due to inactivity. This included our service men and women. How do you show respect to them for their service/Closing their email accounts and selling them for $1.99

Millions of users have left because of NEO

Hundreds are upset about the Finance and Sports re-design.

MILLIONS are holding you accountable for screwing up your mail service.

Here’s something else to think about.

Do the math

Lasting success is achieved by addition and multiplication, not subtraction or division. If your winning depends on causing someone else to lose, that success is doomed to eventually run out. By contrast, when your success is built by creating new value for the world around you, it can continue to grow indefinitely.

Do the math. When you continue subtracting and dividing, you soon reach the very real limit of zero. But you can continue adding and multiplying with no such limit.

Certainly it is a competitive world. Yet the most successful competitors are those who do not depend on the competition, those who make the whole pie bigger instead of fighting over a single slice.

Real success and real value can never be wrested away from another. Your success and fulfillment must be built by you. Focus on the competition, and thatcompetition will throw obstacles in your path at every turn. Focus on creating new value, and the world will enthusiastically push you forward.

This was posted on the SAYNO2NEO group.